Manic Expression

Blog Post New Entry

STOP THE HATE #170 - Spider-man (2002)

Posted by James on July 10, 2012 at 11:55 AM

What the fuck, people!?

Two years ago I wrote an article defending Sam Raimi and criticizing Sony’s decision to reboot the Spider-man franchise. The comment board was filled with support for the Evil Dead director. While everyone agrees that Spider-man 3 was a misstep, we all recognized it had less to do with Raimi than with studio tampering, and no one (and I mean no one) wanted to see the old web head start from scratch.

Oh what a difference a critically acclaimed reboot makes. The Amazing Spider-man is a hit - the critics love it, audiences love it. You know what that means! Time to start bashing the Raimi films!


Ten years ago Tobey Maguire was the “perfect Spider-man,” according to many fans. Now he’s a hammy hack who was miscast from day one. Doc Ock was “one of the great super villains in cinema” when Spider-man 2 was released. Now Alfred Molina is remembered as having failed with a capitol F. Raimi’s bright color palette and light touch with the material was seen as a breath of fresh air a mere decade ago. Now the Spider-man trilogy is remembered as being cheesy, and anyone who doesn’t embrace Spidey’s new, darker tone is an idiot.

Look, I understand that times change, styles are updated, and tastes differ. I get that. ...But the first Spider-man is only ten goddamn years old! Spider-man 2 is only eight! These are not cellphones we’re talking about, for Christ’s sake! These are movies! Cinema! Art! Never in my life have I seen audiences turn on once beloved films simply because a new, shinier version is presented to them.

I haven’t seen The Amazing Spider-man. I have no interest in it. Not because I’m some douchy Raimi purist, pouting over my beloved Sammy being booted off the saga. The trailers didn’t wow me, I don’t like the suit, the cast doesn’t impress me, and the tone of the film feels off to me. When it comes out on DVD I’ll rent it, but I have no desire to plunk down good money to see another Spider-man origin story.

You know, I kind of hate movie audiences in this day and age. Avatar came out and everyone shit themselves, they loved it so much. I didn’t read a single negative review or comment during that films opening weekend. Two years and a couple billion dollars later and Avatar is one of the most hated movies in all of geekdom. No one will even admit the movie had good effects any more.

While that irks me, this whole Spider-man thing is worse, because I’ve seen it before and I know I’ll see it again. Tim Burton’s Batman was remembered as a classic of 80s cinema, as influential a movie to that decade as Star Wars was to the 70s. The Nolan movies come out and suddenly Burton’s vision was pure shit - every performance an atrocity, every plot point a crime against film. Anyone want to bet that Richard Donner and Christopher Reeve are in for a similar thrashing next year when Man of Steel debuts?

Then there’s Bryan Singer’s X-Men...oh, don’t even get me started on Bryan Singer’s X-Men! That movie premiered, like Spider-man, a mere decade before its “re-imagining” at the hands of Matthew Vaughn. As with Spider-man, X-Men had a superior sequel, once hailed by Wizard Magazine as the “greatest superhero movie of all time.” As with Spider-man, Batman, and Superman the Movie, X-Men helped launch the comic book film genre, and was beloved by fans of all ages.

Then along came X-Men: First Class, one of the most overrated movies in recent memory (in my humble opinion). Despite a couple of sterling lead performances by James McAvoy and the always impressive Michael Fassbender, First Class was a fairly forgettable movie. The team of X-Men assembled were given little to no character development, Kevin Bacon was painfully miscast as the lead villain, January Jones was so one note and boring as Emma Frost I wondered if I was watching a puppet, and the movie infuriatingly could not decide if it was a continuation of Singer’s X-Men films or a reboot, so it just sort of mashed the two concepts together.

But all was forgiven when X-Men: First Class arrived. Vaughn’s film was without flaw, while Singer’s once classic double feature was looked upon with burning hatred by fanboys everywhere. Hell, even movie critics have all become fanboys. The same critics who praised Singer’s X-men, Burton’s Batman, and Raimi’s Spider-man now tear them to pieces while reviewing the new films.

This isn’t about fanboy ire or me being an old fuddy duddy clinging to the past. I mentioned cellphones above - that’s what movies are becoming. We love our cell phones. We marvel at all the new features, all the cool apps, the slick new design. Six months later the newer models are out, and suddenly we hate our cellphone! They’re junk! They’re shit! They barely work!

Is that what we want to have happen to an art form like cinema? Do we need to update books like 1001 Movies You Must See Before You Die every few years so we can boot out original films and replace them with their reboots? Hell, I’m not saying there isn’t room for both in such a book. If Amazing Spider-man is as awesome as they say, than maybe it deserves a slot in such a book. But that doesn’t mean you kick out Spider-man and Spider-man 2 to make room.

Categories: STOP THE HATE, Movies & TV, Comic Books

Post a Comment

Oops!

Oops, you forgot something.

Oops!

The words you entered did not match the given text. Please try again.

You must be a member to comment on this page. Sign In or Register

31 Comments

Reply Chris Lang
12:19 AM on July 14, 2012 
When the day comes that mindless fans bash the original Superman movies (not just III and IV, which deserve it, but ALL of them) I will weep and perhaps die a little inside.

If it's against the law to like an older version of a film just because a newer version is out, consider me a lawbreaker. I don't care if you lock me away and throw away the key, or even give me the death penalty. This law against liking previous versions of films is STUPID, and like all stupid laws, should be opposed.

Not that there really is such a law, of course. It's just that a bunch of mindless jerks ACT like there is.

Honestly, I find stuff to like in both the Tim Burton Batman films and the Christopher Nolan Batman films. I like the latter films, and I STILL like the previous ones. I haven't seen The Amazing Spider-Man yet, but I'll probably find something to like in it and STILL like the Raimi films (Spider-Man 2 is my favorite of the Raimi films).

And I'm not alone in this, I'm glad to say. Even Doug Walker, when doing his 'Old vs. New' bits, often admits to liking both of the films that he analyzes (he liked both Burton's first Batman film AND 'The Dark Knight', and he liked both versions of 'True Grit').

All in all, I'm with you 100 percent in your point that we shouldn't treat the older versions as if they're outdated cell phones. That is a stupid mindset that really has to stop.
Reply SOJA
03:36 AM on July 11, 2012 
I dont care what these idiots say about Raimi. If you liked the film in the first place, why the hell are you trashing and scraping it? You say that this happened when Nolan's Batman movie came out too?! The fuck is wrong with people!?

Why can't they think for themselves?! WHY?!?! Why are they this fucking dumb!? Nobodies this dumb! No one!

I'm afraid that "cell phone theory" is true boss man. I'm afraid it's true...

I don't want to be biased and hate this movie but... I can't understand why people act this way now. Is nothing close to your heart anymore ESPECIALLY when you liked Spider-Man in the early 2000s? Wasn't that your favorite movie? The only adaptation of Spider-Man that really worked for you? I guess not... Shows what kind of person you are... Ya asshole...

I still can t believe the build up hatred for the original is still going too.
Reply Les
01:02 AM on July 11, 2012 
alexthed says...
I feel the same way. I loved the Spider-man movies when I first saw them. And I still think they hold up. And I was thinking the same thing you said about the Batman movies. You mentioned the Superman movies, and I'll admit I was worried people were going to have the same reaction to Superman after Superman Returns came out.

Yeah, but fortunately, Superman Returns wasn't even on par with its predecessor....by a Kryptonian mile, my friend. Richard Donner's Superman is secure for it's legacy and reputation as far as I know. Peace.
Reply Infamous Jak
11:12 PM on July 10, 2012 
THANK YOU! I've honestly been getting veryupset at a lot of the comments that say "Raimi films suck, i wish they were never made" Really? If it weren't for the spiderman films we would never have gotten films like Batman Begins and the Avengers. Look i love Spiderman 1 & 2 and i enjoyed the new movie. Why can't you like the new and the old. why does everyone in on web act like dumb sheep and just follow what opion is popular at the moment?
Reply alexthed
06:59 PM on July 10, 2012 
I feel the same way. I loved the Spider-man movies when I first saw them. And I still think they hold up. And I was thinking the same thing you said about the Batman movies. You mentioned the Superman movies, and I'll admit I was worried people were going to have the same reaction to Superman after Superman Returns came out.
Reply Ratin8tor
06:17 PM on July 10, 2012 
You know, I'm in the camp that thought the Raimi Spider-Man films weren't that good either. I honestly though Toby Maguire was a rather boring Peter Parker and I spent most of the film waiting for Spider-Man to come on screen. Sure Spider-Man 2 is better, but i still found the character of Peter incredibly boring.

Then again I think Webb's film has the same problem of making Peter Parker incredibly uninteresting. I mean the romance side of it sort of works, but I don't find Peter engaging as a character at all.

The way I see it, it breaks down in two ways:
Peter either starts out as a boring loser until he gets his superpowers, making him a boring character to watch.
Or Peter starts out confident and snarky and a good person, making him have no character growth whatsoever.

I don't regret seeing Amazing Spider-Man, but it's not a great film. Andrew Garfield is a good actor, but Peter Parker has no development or growth. Hell the best character is Flash Thompson, the bully who, in 4 scenes, has an intersting character arc. He gets more fleshed out then the leads.

Now Chronicle, there's a film that did the whole 'teenagers get superpowers' thing properly. I was comparing Amazing Spider-Man to that; and that's where it fell up short.
Reply Chilton
05:35 PM on July 10, 2012 
Manic_Expression says...
@Chilton,
Critics like Movie Bob and Catherine Reitman actually had to make follow up videos defending their negative reviews of Amazing Spider-man, because fanboys lost their minds and attacked them.

See, that crap shouldn't be necessary. They already reviewed the movie and, as far as I know, gave their honest opinions. They shouldn't be required to follow it up just because of, for lack of a better term, fan-trolls.
Reply pbmiranda
05:09 PM on July 10, 2012 
Oh my God! Thank you so much James. Thank you for writing this amazinly truthful article about how stupid people have become when it comes to these movies. Kevin refuses to watch Amazing Spiderman partly because of all these fanboys claiming that this movie is awesome and that the original movie is now succumb down to cheesy crap. Same thing when the Dark Knight was released and people starting to hit the Burton Batman movies.

I am hoping that these fanboys will wake up and see that they're all good. Stop bashing the classics and praising these new reboots. What's going to happen 10 years from now? I don't even want to think about it.
Reply ComicBookCast
04:56 PM on July 10, 2012 
like i said in my video im sick of flip floping fans
Reply JotaKa
04:43 PM on July 10, 2012 
I am a huge fan of Spider-man. I hated the Raimi's movies when they were released in fundamental levels, even if at the time I wasn't really into comics and was more there for the ride. And now came Amazing Spider-man, and let me say... it's not a good movie. It isn't. It's better than the fuckbad Sam Raimi's movies, but it wasn't a good movie at all. I don't really get how people are saying that this movie is way better (in all honesty, I didn't see the "gritty" and "dark" tones they were saying this movie had) than the previous one... After The Avengers, you can't have a movie this stupid. It has better technology, but the movie is filled with stupid and unnecessary plot holes and choices, and my POV of this movie is going to stand the same as it was with Green Lantern: not a good movie because it spent the whole time building up to a possible sequel, and of course, the sequel will be way better.
Reply Fusionater
04:16 PM on July 10, 2012 
Manic_Expression says...
@Fusionater,
MovieBob said that Andrew Garfield throws off an "Edward from Twilight" vibe. Having not seen the movie I can't comment, but that was always my fear when I heard "Spider-man in high school." I had hoped for a fourth Raimi movie to explore Peter getting married, trying to have a kid, all the things that happened in the comics in the 90s when I was reading them.

Spiderman was in High school when he started out in the comics, he was in high school in what I think is one of the greatest television shows of all time(spectacular spiderman), so it's not like spiderman in high school is a new concept, it's the original concept, and it has worked in glory before.
Reply That Long-Haired Creepy Guy
03:53 PM on July 10, 2012 
I didn't think the Raimi films sucked at all. Spider-Man three was indeed a misstep, but even it had good moments, and wasn't AS terrible as other sequels I won't get into for time's sake. I thought the flow of The Amazing Spider-Man worked better than Raimi, but that isn't saying it was an overall improvement. I liked Garfield playing up the more adorkable side of Parker better than Maguire's angst, but neither film is perfect. And Doc Ock was a superior villain to all others in the films so far, so there's no arguments from me regarding that. One major flaw I found in the 2012 film was the rehashing of the origin story. We'd already seen that in Raimi's version, and despite thinking the 2012 version flowed better, the fact that it has only been a decade left me feeling like I was watching a brief synopsis of the first half of Raimi's version.

No, Raimi's films aren't inferior. In fact, the 2012 reboot has a long way to go. I really liked The Amazing Spider-Man, but it has some huge webs to fill.

(And I find it hilarious that the studio's answer to fixing mistakes that they caused was to toss everything Raimi did out and start from scratch. They really hate having their decisions leave egg on their faces that way, don't they?)
Reply Jim Bevan
03:24 PM on July 10, 2012 
While I've never been the biggest Spider-man fan, and didn't really care for the Raimi films that much, I still thought they had some good moments. And I'm sure that the reboot has good moments as well. Let each film stand on its own merit, and don't toss out the older versions just because something new and flashy has come along. That's like immediately declaring every cover of a great song better than the original because it's newer, and as we all know, that is clearly not the case (remember when Celine Dion butchered "Shook Me All Night Long"? Or Train's recent desecration of "These Eyes"?.)
Reply BigBlackHatMan
02:09 PM on July 10, 2012 
Spider-man 2 is one of my favorites. I liked the Amazing Spider-man. I thought it had some deep flaws, but I liked it. The idea that we have to be in one camp or the other is ridiculous. Good article
Reply Jason on the House
01:52 PM on July 10, 2012 
It was a great blog, and enjoyed all three of the original Spider-Man film. I couldn't agree more with you and Tim. Let the movie stand on its own! They have different interpretation of the subject, and the fans are acting as if they have been damaged all these years by watching "cheesy" films.
Reply Les
01:51 PM on July 10, 2012 
Hi James. Yeah, fanboys really give nerds a bad name, but this throwing a previously loved film under the bus to praise the shiny new model is just pathetic. Great films are always great, and remain so even if you find a film you like better. Personally, I'll be astonished if Man of Steel:

A. Is a better film than Superman: The Movie(1978)
B. Inspires fans of the original to declare the '78 version was crap(Oh, I will go Troll-tastic on anyone who does that-I don't give a fuck.....Christopher Reeve IS Superman-Period).
C. Isn't in its own rights, a great film and a well-needed reboot to a wonderful superhero the world needs now, more than ever.

But the point is, I'm not going to bash the new film until I've seen it, and I won't bash the original if it turns out to be a better film. Great article, my friend. Peace.
Reply Oliver Judd
01:44 PM on July 10, 2012 
Manic_Expression says...
@Oliver Judd,
ComicBook Cast brought up a really good point in a recent video: When Warner Bros. reboots Batman again in a few years, will all the Nolan fanboys turn on the Dark Knight and say, "That was crap, THIS is the definitive Batman!" You know, in comics there are different writers and artists, different universes. Why can't fans learn to say, "I love this movie for representing this aspect of the character, and its reboot for representing this other aspect"?

Exactly. I think it's just that there's a load of comic book fans out there who lack the ability to think, analyse and respect.
Reply James
01:38 PM on July 10, 2012 
@Oliver Judd,
ComicBook Cast brought up a really good point in a recent video: When Warner Bros. reboots Batman again in a few years, will all the Nolan fanboys turn on the Dark Knight and say, "That was crap, THIS is the definitive Batman!" You know, in comics there are different writers and artists, different universes. Why can't fans learn to say, "I love this movie for representing this aspect of the character, and its reboot for representing this other aspect"?
Reply James
01:36 PM on July 10, 2012 
@Kyle,
Corny as it sounds, thats how I feel sometimes.
Reply James
01:35 PM on July 10, 2012 
@Fluffyman,
One of the main criticisms of the movie I've heard is that "The Untold Story" isn't told here. They apparently went in at the last minute, cut a bunch of information out so it could be pursued in a sequel.

Categories

Recent Videos

13 views - 0 comments
24 views - 0 comments
19 views - 3 comments


TLHCG's Push Comes To Shove


Subscribe to the Community!

Follow Us

Webs Counter