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STOP THE HATE #158 - Avengers vs. Dark Knight Rises

Posted by James on May 30, 2012 at 12:05 AM

Avengers is a huge hit, and it couldn’t have happened to a nicer movie. Aside from being entertaining as hell, Avengers felt like a kinder, gentler kind of a blockbuster: Good humored, fun, made for geeks by geeks. I can’t image any other movie this year being as satisfying a filmgoing experience as Avengers.

...Okay...maybe one other movie.


Lets all get a few things straight here: The Dark Knight Rises will not beat Avengers at the box office this year. Don’t get me wrong, DKR will be huge and should easily take the second place spot. Hell, it’ll probably make over a billion dollars. But the final Christopher Nolan Batman film will not have 3D money pouring in. As one recent review said about The Avengers and other 3D blockbusters, “Its like saying a baseball player on steroids beat Babe Ruth’s batting average.”

On top of that, DKR is going to be such a dark, grim movie. Parents who brought screaming, traumatized children out of The Dark Knight are not going to be burned twice, especially if suspicions are confirmed and Batman dies defending his beloved Gotham City. Avengers was more family friendly - bright, colorful, fun. It was the more family friendly of the two movies.

Now, you would think that a year where the two major Hollywood event films were both based on comic books would make fanboys jump for joy. Avengers is on track to become the third most profitable film of all time, while DKR seems like a shoe-in for an Academy Award nomination for best picture. I mean, its not like these movies are really in competition. They open months apart and are really made for two different audiences. Avengers producer Kevin Feige is on record as saying he’s looking forward to DKR, and feels its success will benefit Marvel and help further legitimize the comic book film as a serious genre.

So how come fanboys are at each others throats like fucking children?

If you ever want to see the scum of geekdom, head on over to the message boards on SuperHeroHype.com. I’ve found more inspiration for Stop the Hate there than I can begin to tell you. Everyone hates everything, nothing looks good, everything is overrated or a piece of shit or the worst thing ever made. Nothing is ever good enough, and anything can be grounds for a fight.

The big fight now? Avengers fans vs. Dark Knight fans. Oh my, how Avengers fans are crowing about a Marvel movie shattering the box office records once held by Nolan’s critically acclaimed Bat flick. And they know that DKR has little chance of catching up to Avengers at the box office, which in their eyes means the movie is a failure, and oh how they are rubbing it in.

Fuck! This is so fucking stupid!

Let me get this out of the way, because I’ve said it countless times before and I sound like a broken record: Find something better to do with your time! My God, if battling over the box office returns of two movies, one of which hasn’t even been released yet, is the best thing you can think to do with your time, then there is no hope for you.

But let me throw a new argument into the ring. All these pricks who are saying “Avengers is #1, ha ha ha” have forgotten an argument they’ve made to another rabid fanbase. The argument is with Twihards, and it goes a little something like this: “Box office doesn’t mean anything if the movie sucks.”

Oh how Avengers fans have forgotten. They rallied against the force of Twilight with that battle cry. “Box office means nothing!” They said it over and over again on message boards proclaiming the box office bonanza of the last two Transformers movies. “Box office means nothing!” When Tyler Perry’s latest drag on cinema crossed the #1 line, they joined hands against the tide of Madea fans and screamed, as loud as they could, “Box office means nothing!”

Those same people are now quoting every number, every decimal point, when it comes to the box office take of The Avengers. “Of course its the best movie ever,” they proclaim. “Look at the box office. People wouldn’t go if it weren’t such a good movie. Its obviously better than Dark Knight, look at the numbers.” ...Are those same people ready to admit that the Twilight Saga is a work of genius? After all, box office numbers don’t lie.

This whole Avengers vs. DKR thing is utterly ridiculous. One will make more than the other. There was never a chance that they were going to come in at a dead heat at the box office, right down to the cent. While its fun to speculate about box office numbers, there’s no need to be cruel and mean spirited just because your movie beat another. Its an utter waste of energy and of life, and it makes us all look bad. I’m about the biggest nerd there is. I have a Batman piggy bank, and about two feet away from that, hanging on my wall, is a Captain America shield. Yet when I look at these petty, insipid fanboy quarrels I want to join the chorus and say, “Get a girlfriend, losers!”

The Dark Knight Rises is my number one most anticipated movie for the rest of time (or at least for the next few years). I’m counting down the days till its release. And now that Marvel has announced a September 25th release date for the Avengers bluray, I have that to look forward to as well. I’m a Marvel and a DC. I get to win twice this year. More people should chill out and join me in the awesome that is summer movie season 2012...its a nice place to be.

Categories: STOP THE HATE, Movies & TV, Thoughts

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32 Comments

Reply NewPhoenixFilms
10:49 PM on August 02, 2012 
I don't want to live on this planet anymore.
Reply Fluffyman
03:59 PM on May 30, 2012 
If you think SuperHeroHype is bad, that is really nothing compared to the atrocities known as the IMDb forums. Not a lot of quality control with posts in there.

My feelings towards the battle between fans is this: I don't expect the same movie experience from "The Dark Knight Rises" as I did with "The Avengers" but that doesn't mean that's a bad thing. They are completely different sort of comic book films, with different approaches I welcome, as opposed to movies that just feel the same way.

And to me "Avengers" has a couple of things that hold it back from being great, I don't hold it as high as some others do, I still think "Iron Man" is the best film of the Marvel Cinematic Universe. It is still a landmark film for bringing elements from five different films together, but there is still a chance "The Dark Knight Rises" might be better.
Reply pbmiranda
08:27 AM on May 30, 2012 
I completely agree with you, James. Why can't people just like something without someone else saying that something else is better? In the end, both of these movies will be great anyway. Let's get along. Great article.
Reply Infamous Jak
02:34 AM on May 30, 2012 
Manic_Expression says...
I hope I didn't hurt anyone's feelings with the "girlfriend" remark, lol. Isn't that the typical big bully remark hurled at us nerds?

lol. nah, i was just joking around. great work on this article.
Reply Les
01:15 AM on May 30, 2012 
Hi James. Excellent article, my friend. Fanboys can get so touchy and take opinions that differ from theirs so personally. It's really a shame, since both films are likely to be successful and good for comic book superhero films in general. Saying one is better than the other is ludicrous(Particularly when the second film still hasn't screened LOL!) They will be radically different films and will have vastly different impacts-both positive-that's a guess, but I'm willing to put money on it. Peace.
Reply BigBlackHatMan
12:20 AM on May 30, 2012 
Manic_Expression says...
I hope I didn't hurt anyone's feelings with the "girlfriend" remark, lol. Isn't that the typical big bully remark hurled at us nerds?

I was just joking about it as it struck me as funny that it always comes up.
Reply James
09:51 PM on May 29, 2012 
I hope I didn't hurt anyone's feelings with the "girlfriend" remark, lol. Isn't that the typical big bully remark hurled at us nerds?
Reply alexthed
08:36 PM on May 29, 2012 
I really don't see the point about arguing on this one. Avengers was awesome. DKR will probably be awesome. I say just enjoy the both of them for what they are.
Reply Jordan The Childish
07:57 PM on May 29, 2012 
People have been fighting about Avenges and Dark Knight Rises? Wow. I never figured geek culture could ever rail against a good geek movie, let alone a Nolan Batman film. I guess everyone can act extremely stupid when in large groups.
Reply richb
07:44 PM on May 29, 2012 
Avengers felt like a real superhero movie, it didn't try to be all multi layered with subtext and meaning the DKR and Spifer-Man is going to do, it was just out to have some good old fashioned fun!!
Reply SOJA
07:41 PM on May 29, 2012 
Yeah I don't have a girlfriend and I'm perfectly fine

*sigh*

I'm so lonely... Oh so lonely... I have nobody... On my own... Ohhh I'm so lonely... Nah I'm just kidding. I'm fine by myself, but these guys need to be loved. Not specifically by a girlfriend though. Like from family... Or a pet turtle. Or they need to wack it every once in a while. Kyle told me that once... Don't read to much into that.
Reply Infamous Jak
07:14 PM on May 29, 2012 
aw, SuperHeroHype.com. to quote a very wise man, "You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious."

I'm getting to the point where i won't even read comments on articles on either movies, because it is filled withnothing but 12 year old fan boys who think they are so grown up because they can drop the f-bomb 20 times in their comment. who cars which movie makes more money. both films will be amazing. The Avengers is already my favorite superhoreo film and the DKR looks like an excellent way to finish off the trilogly. if you can't enjoy both films i truely feel bad for you.

Also i'm with BBHM, what are you trying to say about not having a girlfriend?
Reply TheDVDGrouch
06:57 PM on May 29, 2012 
An absolutely brilliant article that puts into words everything I feel on this matter. Doing a comic book podcast its impossible not to run into fanboys arguing, & I''ve really seen the worst of the worst on both sides of the debate.

Its not like one movies success is going to change your life for better or worse. I love superheros and even I want to tell these people to grow the fuck up & move on.
Reply Jason on the House
05:16 PM on May 29, 2012 
I am interested in the neverending Dreamworks vs. Pixar box office fight, because Dreamworks has been doing corrupted actions for winning awards and I personally cannot stand to see Dreamworks having success after such dirty deeds with money; however, I find spending time just for fighting which will beat another very pointless. Avengers was a really bright, clever and awesome movie, and I am sure DKR will provide us with the depth of characters, story and the impressive action. Why can't people enjoy that fact that they saw and will see good comic book movies instead of empty-headed time killer action films.

It's like fighting that the oranges they eating right now is much better than those unharvested apples in the trees. Granted they are both fruits and taste sweet, but they are two different types of fruits from two different trees. My Dreamworks example in this fruit metaphor would be that me pointing at people who sell sweetened apples with a few half-rotten ones hidden, while the other person is carefully growing orages, but I digress. It was a great blog.
Reply ComicBookCast
04:43 PM on May 29, 2012 
TheOtherDude92 says...
I do see where you are coming from, but I still think that people still should consider the Nolan movies as comic book movies because there are a lot like other Batman stories from comic books. In fact Nolan's universe is a lot like Batman Year One in my opinion.


yeah Year 1 is great

and i will say that TDK is the best movie based on a Comic book FILM
Avengers is the best Comic Book movie
Reply TheOtherDude92
04:36 PM on May 29, 2012 
Manic_Expression says...
See, this is the thing I'm kind of talking about: There really is no right or wrong here. Some people feel Nolan did something very special with Batman, some feel it wasn't as good as other interpretations. Some feel Avengers is the ultimate comic book flick, others feel it was shallow and style over substance. Its all opinion. No one is right or wrong.

For me, I think Dark Knight is a better FILM and Avengers is a better COMIC BOOK FILM. But I loved both and would never argue that one is better than the other.


I do see where you are coming from, but I still think that people still should consider the Nolan movies as comic book movies because there are a lot like other Batman stories from comic books. In fact Nolan's universe is a lot like Batman Year One in my opinion.
Reply James
04:29 PM on May 29, 2012 
ComicBookCast says...
u can literally take the Bat ears off Batman in TDK and rename it something else and most people would not even know its Batman, that's why.

but saying Batman had no substance has to be a Joke. Batman 89 and Returns are some of the best visual and stylistic portrayals of Batman to date. Top both off with amazing acting and story. Batman Forever for some of its fault was a amazing film.

See, this is the thing I'm kind of talking about: There really is no right or wrong here. Some people feel Nolan did something very special with Batman, some feel it wasn't as good as other interpretations. Some feel Avengers is the ultimate comic book flick, others feel it was shallow and style over substance. Its all opinion. No one is right or wrong.

For me, I think Dark Knight is a better FILM and Avengers is a better COMIC BOOK FILM. But I loved both and would never argue that one is better than the other.
Reply TheOtherDude92
04:29 PM on May 29, 2012 
ComicBookCast says...
u can literally take the Bat ears off Batman in TDK and rename it something else and most people would not even know its Batman, that's why.

but saying Batman had no substance has to be a Joke. Batman 89 and Returns are some of the best visual and stylistic portrayals of Batman to date. Top both off with amazing acting and story. Batman Forever for some of its fault was a amazing film.


Batman was a good movie, but it's really flawed when it came to characters like for me Jack Nicholson did a good job, but he was a lot more campy then threatening. Batman Returns is a abomination and a insult to Batman in so many ways like the fact that Batman kills people, had the second worst Catwoman of all time, made Penguin a deformed mutant instead of a civilized gentlemen that was also a thug and so many other problems that make that movie a huge peace of shit. Then there is Batman Forever where they made Two Face a giggling dumb ass that was trying to be a clone of the Joker, The Riddler was to much of a goofball to be taken seriously and last the movie is way to cartoonish and campy and to me Batman in movies should never be campy. Only in TV shows like the Brave and the Bold should he ever be presented as campy fun.
Reply ComicBookCast
04:17 PM on May 29, 2012 
Manic_Expression says...
It wouldn't surprise me, but I kind of doubt DKR will beat Avengers, mainly because its not being released in 3D. Of course thats just box office numbers, who knows which will be the better movie.


Box office arguing needs to die. i can put it like this 2.

when TDK came out in my State minimum wage was $7.12 and a movie ticket was $9, now minimum wage is 8.56 and a movie ticket is $10

Money vs success is stupid. what it comes down it is whats a better film if we look at Avengers Vs TDK i will argue Avengers. it took a typical alien invasion and made it good and witty fun charming and most of all COMIC BOOK
Reply ComicBookCast
04:14 PM on May 29, 2012 
TheOtherDude92 says...
How are they not Batman films? First it is the best characterization of Batman that's not animated and has every single personality of the character's down perfectly. Just because he does not have most of his gimmicky stuff does not make it less of a comic book movie. I rather have substance over style and that's something that Batman movies before The Nolan movies were lacking.


u can literally take the Bat ears off Batman in TDK and rename it something else and most people would not even know its Batman, that's why.

but saying Batman had no substance has to be a Joke. Batman 89 and Returns are some of the best visual and stylistic portrayals of Batman to date. Top both off with amazing acting and story. Batman Forever for some of its fault was a amazing film.

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